Well, my new RTM Disco is here. I picked it up from Forward Air on Thursday. It arrived in perfect condition without so much as a scratch. I still don't understand how Lonestar Kayaks can ship the boats free of shipping charges. Kudos again to Dave of Lonestar Kayaks in Austin, Texas!
I have not paddled the boat yet, but I thought I would divide my review into two parts. This first part is simply about my first impressions on dry land, so to speak.

The first thing that struck me was that the Disco is a very sharp-looking boat. Everyone else who has seen the boat has said as much, too. Especially with its sunburst design, it's much more of an eyecatcher than, say, my Scupper Pro.

The second thing that struck me was the quality of the build. The plastic is considerably thicker than that of my Scupper Pro, the lines and seams are clean, and the stainless steel, bolted fittings are a huge step up from riveted plastic pad eyes. Still, I was a bit surprised that the boat weighed in at 60 pounds even. The advertised weight is 23 kg, or 50 pounds. And I had read at least two reviews (not yours, Clay) that made reference to a weight even below 50 pounds. However, the Disco still feels substantially lighter than my Scupper Pro, both when lifting the kayak off the ground and loading it onto the car. So, perhaps the scale was off. I will try to borrow a neighbor's scale to double-check the weight. Then again, given the thickness of the plastic, it would however not be all that surprising if the boat, indeed, did weigh 60 pounds. Since the boat is easy enough to move around, I don't really care too much about the actual weight.

The third and not so great thing that registered – as soon as I sat down in the cockpit - was that the molded footwells do not work out for my leg length. The footwell with the scupper holes is too far away, and the one closer to the cockpit is too close for comfort, forcing my knees up too much. The cockpit is also much wider than that of my Scupper Pro. There is no support either for my calves and thighs or my hips. The cockpit is simply not designed for someone of my height and weight (5’8, 140 lbs.).

At first, I was a bit dismayed, to tell you the truth. But after the initial letdown, I realized that my Scupper Pro is an anomaly and that sit-inside kayaks and even most other sit-on-top kayaks are never the right fit and need to be customized with outfitting foam. So, that's exactly what I proceeded to do with the Disco. I cut pieces of closed cell foam for the footwells and also for my calves, and taped them in temporarily to see how they work. Hip pads will have to wait until next week. At least on dry land, I like the modified fit and am fairly confident that I will, in the end, be comfortable and happy with the Disco cockpit.

The fourth item - another one I am not so happy with - is the center hatch. The hatch is apparently supplied by RTM (according to Dave of Lonestar Kayaks). It has the shiny look and flimsy feel of one of those promotional frisbees that people end up using for their dogs and the hatch cover overhangs the rim. Aside from looking atrocious, the overhanging hatch cover rubs against the inside of my thighs. Whether it is watertight remains to be seen. According to Dave, it isn't.

Whether or not it is watertight, there is no way around it, but the hatch is going to have to come out and be replaced with a Viking hatch. I had told Dave that I would prefer a Viking hatch, but said that an alternative hatch of equivalent quality would be okay, too. I probably should not have done that. Because of the time pressure -- I purchased the boat last Friday and he shipped the boat on Monday -- we unfortunately never had a clear conversation about this issue. I guess I just couldn't imagine anyone making, selling or choosing such a hatch. This is not to slam Dave. He actually recommended against installing ANY center hatch, but I insisted. Because RTM supplies the hatch he ultimately installed, I can't fault him for doing what he did. But for anyone considering the purchase of a RTM Disco, please make sure you insist on a Viking (or equivalent) hatch.

Fifth and last, here are some observations about stowage on the RTM Disco. As expected, the tankwell will accommodate only one large dry bag. Because the tankwell is rather shallow (an intentional feature to make sure the tank while drains fast), the bag sticks up quite a bit. Since the boat has no rudder, I, for one, will pack the bag as flat as possible to minimize windage. That means I plan to pack only my rolled-up tent and sleeping mat and perhaps a few other smaller items in the dry bag. That way, windage should not be too bad.

Also as expected, the forward hatch is not cavernous. Nonetheless, I was glad to find out that my sleeping bag can -- albeit only without a dry bag around it -- be stuffed sideways into the space between the hatch and the cockpit, leaving the rest of the hatch space available for a tapered dry bag yet to be purchased. I will simply put the sleeping bag inside a trash bag. Since the bag does not sit on the bottom of the hull, it should stay fairly dry that way. A small 30 x 12" tapered dry bag will have to accommodate all personal gear, such as dry clothing, flashlight, etc.

The center hatch, I was happy to see, can be packed with more stuff than that of my Scupper Pro. I will probably use three separate dry bags, no more than 6 inches wide, two of which will fit right inside the rail next to the hatch opening. The middle one will set a right under the hatch opening. There is also about 4 inches worth of space right underneath the seat, where I could food items or perhaps a flat water bag. There is also space inside the rails next to the seat, as well as under the forward part of the cockpit. It's obviously going to be a very tight fit, but it looks to me like it will be possible to pack the boat for at least a 2-3 day trip.

That's pretty much it for now. I will share my impressions of tomorrow's first paddle soon. My sense still is that once I have paddle the Disco, all of the other aforementioned problem areas will fade in my consciousness. But as they say, the proof is in the eating of the pudding ...

Robert

Thanks for the part 1 review, Robert. My husband is in the market for a new, "sharper-looking", seaworthy SOT and I look forward to part 2 of your review.

Robert, thanks for the review. I'm also anxious to hear part 2.

So, here is part 2 of my review.

I took my new Disco out at Cabrillo Beach this morning, in 80 degree weather and a light offshore breeze. There were some good-sized sets rolling in now and then, wrap around energy from a fading NW swell, and I had to time my entry right. Obviously, not ideal conditions with a brand new boat.

When things looked calm enough, I sat down in the boat in knee-deep water, did two or three strokes – and then – much as I hate to admit it - ended up in the water. I don’t even know what I did, I think I was doing a corrective stroke on the right side to aim the bow squarely at the next incoming wave. But the high center of gravity of the Disco took me by surprise, I heeled over, and then had no choice but to jump out before I got dumped. Not a big deal as I was still able to stand up in the water, but a bit humbling nonetheless as I don’t recall ever falling out of a kayak when launching.

Now that I knew what to expect, the second launch attempt went smoothly enough and I was soon past the shore break. Once I had settled in, I realized – actually, I was astonished – how high I sat in the water compared to my Scupper Pro. I would say there is at least a 1 1/2 -2-inch difference in where the seat is relative to the surface of the water. The Disco seat is simply not as deeply contoured and flatter in profile (my upright fist fits under the seat!). The paddling position, including foot position, is actually quite similar to that of the OK Scrambler, for those of you familiar with the Scrambler.

In flat water and light ocean swells I found the stability of the Disco to be OK and certainly not threatening. I did not feel like I was going to fall off (again). However, I did have to be way more careful moving around the boat, e.g. sitting side-saddle, facing aft. However, aside from the issue of stability, I somehow did not like the feel of sitting so far above the water. Again, the Scrambler is a good comparison. The Scrambler is certainly no tippier than my Scupper Pro, but I still much prefer the close-to-the-water feel of the Scupper Pro. I admit that this is mostly a subjective thing and others could, and some will, differ. But sitting in rather than on the water is part of what attracts me to kayaking, as opposed to, say, rowing.

The next thing I noticed as I veered West and across the wind (5-8 knots) tracking, the boat weathercocked and noticeably so. I was frankly surprised that this should be so, since the wind was light and I only carried a medium-sized, flat dry bag in the tankwell that stuck up no more than 5 inches max. I know that you, Clay, and others have said that wind makes hardly any difference to the Disco, but that was simply not my experience. Maybe, it’s not fair to compare the rudderless Disco with my ruddered Scupper Pro. But the fact remains that without a rudder, the Disco weathercocks and needs constant corrective strokes to paddle across even a light wind. The boat responds well to corrective strokes, though, and is easier to keep on track than my Scupper Pro is without a rudder. Also, the Disco can, as Clay has said many times before, be edged and steered that way. Having no kneestraps, I did not have occasion to try that method. But at least over long distances, I don’t think it would be an option for me.

With the boat weathercocking, I must say that I did not feel like I was making any better headway – i.e., paddling more efficiently and/or faster – than with my Scupper Pro (with the rudder down). If anything, the opposite is true. I don’t have any GPS readings for you, all I can tell you is that I found the exercise tiring after just 30 minutes. Paddling the Disco across the wind over longer distances (e.g., across the channel to Catalina Island ) is, at least for me, completely out of the question.

At some point, the wind died and I finally began to enjoy the Disco. The boat slices through the water silently and is fun to paddle, arguably more so than my Scupper Pro. Again, I don’t have GPS readings, but I would guestimate that I was paddling ½ mile faster than with my Scupper Pro with the same effort. I was probably cruising at 3-3.5 mph.

Later on in the day, the wind turned NW and I had occasion to paddle the Disco upwind (5 knots only). Again, I felt that I was making better progress than I would have with my Scupper Pro. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.
To put the efficiency difference in perspective: Adding a rudder to my Scupper Pro made a much, much greater difference than the Disco’s sleeker (but also shorter) hull. So did switching from a Werner Little Dipper paddle to a Nimbus Chinook paddle. Those two changes just about doubled my comfortable paddling range. As much as I would like it to be otherwise, the Disco just won't have that kind of an impact. Not even close.

After about 2 hours, I began to feel uncomfortable sitting in the boat. The seating position is just so different from my Scupper Pro – the only boat I have paddled for more than 15 years now – that my body seems to have a hard time adjusting. Comfort is a subjective thing, of course, and I am sure that others would find the Disco as comfortable as, or even more comfortable than, the Scupper Pro. With time, I could probably get used to it myself or at least learn to ignore it. But ...

Well, I guess you can see where this is going. The Disco just isn’t going to work out for me. I need a boat that I can paddle MUCH FARTHER than my Scupper Pro, 25 miles to be precise. That means I will have to be in the boat for at least 7 hours, probably closer to 8. I paddled the Disco for about 4 hours today and just can’t see myself sitting on the Disco much longer than that. Even if I were comfortable enough, I don’t see how I am going to manage the weathercocking issue over such a long distance. The incremental difference in speed and efficiency just isn’t enough to make up for these two shortfalls. Far from it.

In conclusion: The Disco is, in my eyes, a great boat for someone who paddles relatively short distances. The boat paddles efficiently, tracks very well at least without wind or upwind, is easy to maneuver, and is fun to paddle. Any lack of comfort won’t really show itself unless you spend 2+ hours in the boat. Weathercocking also isn’t a big deal unless you plan to cover more than just a couple of miles or so with the wind abeam. For the price, length and weight of the boat, the Disco is very, very hard to beat. It just isn’t a long-distance expedition boat – no matter how much I had (perhaps foolishly) hoped that it would be.

Robert,

I've always said the Scrambler was the best overall boat, it surfs and tours well; the most common complaint I hear about the Scrambler is the high seating raising the COG and making the kayak less stable. The way it compensated is the Niemier tri-hull form that actually stabilizes the boat. If the Disco has a higher seat, but has small sponsons, empirically you would assume it is less stable than a Scrambler. I have found that less stable kayaks are harder to paddle for long periods, because a fair amount of effort is used to stablized the kayak using small, but rapid muscular adjustments. This fatigues the paddler and eventually leads to exhaustion at an earlier time when compared to the more stable SPTH. The SPTH has a tri-hull design, but it is less exagerated in shape than the Scrambler. Still, with this more subdued design, the SPTH does not sacrifice stability to increase speed. As you see, it is hard to make a better mouse trap in this case, which is why I will never sell mine.

Robert,

I just have to wonder if the performance would be better with the added weight of your camping supplies and water. I know the primary stability of my new to me Skua improves 100% once I put a bunch of stuff in the hatches. 10 gallons of water tames the weather cocking and doesn't affect the speed noticably.

Keep us informed of your sea trials.

Have to agree about the weight issue. I think I remember that you weigh 140 or so. I weigh in at 183. Also what seat if any were you using? I just use a back support. If I use a seat the COG is awful and the boat is extremely tippy. Next to the 160 Tarpon this yak tracks great especially in windy conditions with swells and chop. I usually paddle in a large bay at the mouth of the Delaware River where the winds are blowing at 15 mph. Your assessment about long distance paddleling is probably accurate. You probably need a longer kayak. I still think the Disco is a great yak for moderate use.

Two good points, Kevin and Bruce.

It is indeed difficult to make a better mouse trap in this case, but the stability of the Disco should certainly improve once it is loaded with camping gear. So should weathercocking.

I suspect that the difference between what I experienced yesterday and what others, including Clay and also Cap'n Jimbo (the first guy on another site to review the Disco), experienced in the past is mostly due to weight - I weigh about 50 pounds less than they do. The problem is that with the limited stowage capacity of the Disco, I'll be hard pressed to come up with 50 pounds of gear. It'll be more like 25 pounds - like a light backpacker's load. So, once again, it seems that the hull of the Disco is, somewhat counterintuitively, not made for a smaller paddler. Both the cockpit layout and COG favor larger paddlers, though perhaps not over 200 lbs. Interesting conclusion when you consider that I am built very much like the average Disco-dancing French guy 

Here is what really gets me: From a design point of view, RTM could easily have lowered the seat 2-3 inches because there are about 5 inches left between seat and hull. But then, they would, of course, also have had to lower the footwell. Otherwise the paddler’s feet would end up above his buttock, which is neither comfortable nor efficient. If RTM had lowered the footwell by 2 inches, that would have resulted in about 3-5 inches of water in the footwell (there is about 1-2 inches as it is). Absent a center tunnel like that found on the Scupper Pro, Kaskazi Pelican/Marlin, Quiver Comanche/Wappo, EasyRider Eskimo SK, and others, the total volume of water in the cockpit would have been too large at that point. So, RTM figured it can’t be done and they left the seat where it is now.

In other words, simply adding a center tunnel – which also creates more interior hull space for stowing gear and can even help balance the boat and reduce weathercocking – would have allowed RTM to reduce the COG. Since the seat has no scuppers anyway, this would also not have increased the amount of water the paddler sits in. In fact, the Disco would likely become so stable at that point that they could have shaved an inch or two off the 26” beam and make the boat even more efficient to paddle.

The Neck Manitou, for example, a 14-foot SINK that I test paddled last summer, has a beam of only 24.5 inches. It felt rock-solid to me, every bit as stable as my Scupper Pro. The reason is that the Manitou has a very low COG, like any well-made SINK. Given that Tim Nimier learned this lesson and incorporated a center tunnel into the original Scupper design almost 30 years ago and that RTM has had the benefit of hindsight, it’s mind-boggling to me that they seem to have forgotten this lesson.



People sometimes forget this, but stability is not just a matter of beam, but also length (at water line). Everything else being equal, a longer boat is more stable than a shorter boat. With the Disco’s overhanging stern and bow, only about 12 feet are actually in the water. In contrast, almost all of the 14’9 of the Scupper Pro are actually in the water. Reduced length at waterline not only has an adverse effect on stability, but also efficiency and speed. Had RTM made the Disco even one foot, better two feet, longer, the boat would have been even more stable and much faster.

None of these changes strike me as particularly hard to grasp or implement. Center tunnels are easy enough to mold, so are longer hulls. With the super-low price of the Disco, adding $200 or so to the cost would not have priced the boat out of the market.

But enough of the could have’s, should have’s and would have’s … it’s time to move on.

Robert

Just to answer Eli's question: I use an XSL surf seat, the bottom is only 3/8 of an inch of closed cell foam. Because the seat is quite old, the foam is extremely pliable and compresses to very little. In other words, it raises the COG only insignificantly. Still, without a seat, the COG would undoubtedly be a bit better. The thing is, I need that seat to paddle in an upright position, especially for longer distances. Riding "bare back" is unfortunately not an option for me.

For perspective: I use the same seat in my SP plus a 1/2 inch of newer closed cell foam and the COG is still phenomenal.

Robert

Robert,

Mate, I'm really sorry that the Disco isn't working out for you . I had no idea that it would be so sensitive to changes in weight. I can only guess that it's because it is such a low volume boat unlike the Scupper Pro which may tolerate greater variations in paddler weight without affecting its trim significantly. I was so surprised to read that you found the seat too high. At my weight the bottom of the seat is a good 2" below the waterline and the feeling is very much one of being "in" the water. A deeper seat as you suggested would put the water in the footwells right up to the centre hatch at rest, not good. You must be floating much higher in the water which would also explain the weather cocking. As I mentioned before the only time I had a problem with weathercocking was when the water was dead clam and the bow couldn't get a decent "bite". I suspect that, due to the rocker of the hull, you are floating on the centre section and one or both of the ends are pretty much clear of the water.

I'm disappointed that you don't find the seat comfortable although that is a very personal thing. I haven't paddled for longer than a couple of hours but have never had to stop because I was uncomfortable. Obviously the width of the seat suits my wider hips better although I agree it is still a little wide at the top but tapers significantly towards the bottom. As I suggested previously I don't think the seat well is particularly well suited to the use of an accessory seat and a backband alone may have allowed you to move further back where the seat is better shaped. This may have also put the second footrests in a better position and improved the trim.

I will take issue with you on the need for a centre tunnel. Due to the pronounced swede form, the front of the cockpit is fairly narrow and there is barely two "foot widths" between the footrests (at least for my big clodhoppers ). Adding a tunnel would make it impossible to release from the thigh braces by simply straightening the legs (remember that, with the exception of the Scupper Pro, none of the SOTs you mentioned are equipped for thigh braces). Yes, I know I could get out by putting a hand on either side of the cockpit and sliding out like a SINK but that takes longer and there is more risk of losing the paddle. I have my braces very tight and an easy release is very important to me.

What will you do? Do you think you'll be able to sell the Disco without losing too much?

cheers,
clay